Recent Blog Entries
Toyota Loves 9rules So Much, They Used Our Leaf
Written by Mike Rundle on October 13, 2006
The Toyota plant in Georgetown, Kentucky must really think 9rules is something nifty, because for their “In the Interest of Women” conference (website/logo here) they took a 9rules leaf, flipped it horizontally and turned it green to celebrate their love!
I assume that nobody associated with Toyota did such a thing (probably an underpaid design intern) but I still got a kick out of it. I’ve emailed the person associated with the WHOIS information for their URL, but I’m not holding my breath.
Thanks to sleuth-in-training Brian Brooks for pointing this out in a Note!
Also, just to show the similarities a bit more, I took their logo and layered it over a flipped version of the 9rules logo. The left-most leaf, right-most leaf, and stem all line up perfectly — it seems they only took the taller leaves and moved them a tiny bit. Three random coordinate points lining up perfectly in an XY plane is quite the coincidence 
Update: I’ve received an email from the legal offices representing the firm who designed the logo, and they maintain that the logo was not ripped off in any way, shape, or form. I’ve replied citing numerous instances where the 9rules logo has been in use before their logo and am awaiting a reply. I’ll let you guys know how it goes down.
October 13th, 2006 at 3:36 pm
This is a tip of something not to do. Just as Mike pointed out someone spotted it, and posted a note to let us know. Eventually the situation will come to light.
October 13th, 2006 at 3:52 pm
Shhh! It’s the internet, no one will ever look in our backyard. What a ridiculous inspirational rip by Toyota.
October 13th, 2006 at 3:58 pm
Quite a surprise that a major company like Toyota has no standard of ethics.
October 13th, 2006 at 4:37 pm
Holy cow!
Now that’s a fine example of what I like to call “Scanless”!
That is a crappy move.
Does that person think that they really wouldn’t get caught? Or that nobody would notice this?
Sad. LOL
October 13th, 2006 at 5:42 pm
They always say that imitation is the highest form of flattery. That is too funny Mike….. in a sad kinda way. I know some good lawyers in Virginia if you need one…
October 13th, 2006 at 5:43 pm
That’s really, really low. I mean, if your going to copy a logo– at least have the brains that if your logo looks familiar, or the idea was ripped off something else and you don’t want to get caught or whatnot, DON’T DO IT. Why is this concept so hard to understand?
October 13th, 2006 at 6:14 pm
My people will be contacting you about the use of my “leaf” design.
October 13th, 2006 at 7:14 pm
Gee. The rest of their site is sooo well designed, I’m a bit perplexed as to why they would have to resort to theft.
You guys have made a conscious effort to control your identity. Which makes this all the more unfortunate, Mike. I’m sorry to see that. For your sake. And for 9rules sake. Hopefully, this is an isolated incident.
October 13th, 2006 at 7:15 pm
I can’t fathom how Toyota’s legal team could say that the logo isn’t ripped. It looks exactly like it! You should sue for copyright infringement.
October 13th, 2006 at 9:10 pm
Heh. Without any prompting or preloading I went to the Toyota site and then asked my wife to look at the screen. I said, “This is a site by Toyota” she said, “That’s the 9rules logo!” For the record, my wife isn’t as sensitive to this as perhaps we are, and she even thinks it’s a rip.
October 13th, 2006 at 9:47 pm
[...] Toyota Loves 9rules So Much, They Used Our Leaf [...]
October 13th, 2006 at 10:24 pm
I think everyone is taking the blame game too far. Everyone is blaming the company (Toyota) and saying it is their fault.
Honestly, do you really think a company like them really knows about a site like 9rules? They had a design firm take care of it, thinking the firm would be original. You cannot blame a large company for something a pathetic little design firm did.
October 13th, 2006 at 10:36 pm
Well, allow me to be the first to say “I don’t see it.” Actually, it’s not that I don’t see it, it’s that I don’t see an actual “rip.” I see similarities, I see “inspiration” as mentioned by another commentator, but if it was a true “rip,” I guess I’d expect certain aspects to be nearly identical, such as the stem or a few of the “leaves.”
I dunno. 9rules isn’t exactly ESPN or CNN or the like — I don’t think it’s fair to assume every designer everywhere has seen the logo. Are we so certain we can rule out coincidence?
Just wonderin’.
October 13th, 2006 at 10:36 pm
well, it might not be so much Toyota, but the hacks they hired to represent them?
October 14th, 2006 at 12:45 am
Wow… This is a balant copy. And above all sending you guys a mail claiming nothing has been ripped, this is waay over the top.
October 14th, 2006 at 8:15 am
I think its too close to assume it’s coincidence.
October 14th, 2006 at 9:07 am
To be quite honest, I don’t see the rip off. If I had leaves randomly arranged one on top of the other in varying levels of opacity, I’d end up with something similar.
October 14th, 2006 at 9:32 am
For those that say it is not a rip and they might end up with something similar, what are the odds of not seeing our leaf and coming up a leaf where the stem has the same proportion and the leaves have the same proportions, bent the exact same way? It’s not just a leaf there are several leaves making one big leaf (for lack of another term). What are the odds of that? It’s the same thing that happened with Cork’d and Falkner Winery.
October 14th, 2006 at 11:49 am
It looks to me that they definitely copied the concept (and yes, I agree, they lacked creativity in doing so), but it also seems that they recreated the image. There are lots of similarities, but in my opinion there are also lots of differences that indicate — to me, anyway — that it’s not a directly copy-and-modify. The end of the stem for example. It looks like they used a different tool to make the line. In my opinion, with such a simple design, it’d take less skill, time, and work to recreate it using the concept than it would be to modify the copied image.
October 14th, 2006 at 1:38 pm
copy, copy, copy!!!
October 14th, 2006 at 3:09 pm
No it definitely looks like a rip off to me.
October 14th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
100% lazy
100% copy.
October 14th, 2006 at 5:02 pm
Thought this was interesting in light of the current situation.
Meridian’s values (from their site):
“Since our founding 30 years ago by our CEO, Mary Ellen Slone, Meridian Communications has adhered to these tenets:
-Identify great talent and nurture it.
-Empower talent to create exceptional, memorable work for our clients — and to enjoy doing so.
-Forge and maintain strong relationships built on honesty — with clients, within the industry, and within the community.
-Learn something new every single day
-Bring passion to ‘do it right’- every time.
-Put families first, always.
-Never, ever ‘burn a bridge’.
-Take time to smell the roses.
-Be a catalyst for and be willing to embrace change.
The last statement has helped us redefine and restructure ourselves through three successful decades of providing “Brand New Thinking” to a myriad of clients- both commercial and not-for-profit, literally world-wide.”
October 14th, 2006 at 5:26 pm
Wow! My goodness, the designer must have thought he/she found a fine needle in a haysack to immitate. (Wrong!) They ought to link the leaf logo to 9rules! Imagine! That would be funny.
October 14th, 2006 at 10:23 pm
I agree with others. Let’s set one thing straight: This is not Toyota’s fault. Toyota is not a design firm; it is a car manufacturer. It may hire designers for commercials, websites and other multimedia; it may even have many of these people on regular staff. The car company itself, however, should probably not be held responsible for what a designer did, however. Also, this is in Georgetown, Virginia, so chances are, it’s a smaller part of Toyota and they hired a freelancer.
This is basically a copy, though. If the X and Y coordinates are the same, that’s a copy, guys (to those of you who say it’s just “inspiration”). There are just too many possible outcomes, even when you’re “inspired” by something to end up, just by sheer coincidence, with the same X and Y coordinates in Illustrator. The chances of that are incredibly inprobable. Moreover, what are the chances of that happening and using the layered-leaf look? Maybe if it were just a plain or even more decorated leaf with the same coordinates–maybe, just maybe–I could believe it wasn’t a copy, but it has all the ingredients of a rip.
To those who say this isn’t a copy, let me ask you: If someone took the header image off of your website, desaturated it, added a bit of a filter and flipped it horizontally to use on a site design that looks essentially like you own but maybe with different colours, would you just call that coincidental inspiration? It would basically be the same situation you see here. Chances are, no, you’d likely be running around on all the Internet forums, declaring how horrid this is and wanting to know how you can get them to change their design.
Just my 2 cents.
October 14th, 2006 at 10:26 pm
Georgetown, Kentucky I was reading the comments, and Chad’s comment got Virginia stuck in my head.
October 15th, 2006 at 12:28 am
Well, upon closer inspection, the stem is much closer to identical than I at first thought, and obviously the leaf pattern (with the multiple leaves and opacity and such) is very close … I just find it difficult to believe someone working for a company as large as Toyota (knowing how many people would see it) would do something like this. It just boggles the mind. I still refuse to believe 9rules is so large as to be seen by that many folks, even in the design world, but Toyota is clearly going to draw many, many eyeballs, and a few pair of those eyeballs may have seen 9rules at some point, which brings me back to my incredulous thoughts — if they *were* “inspired” by the 9rules logo, how could they think it wouldn’t be seen?
The winery/Cork’d example, by the way, is much more egregious. The icons they swiped were clearly the exact same icons, in shape and all, with only a drop-shadow added and different text. While the Toyota logo may very well be a “rip,” it was at least changed sufficiently to plant doubt (at least in my feeble mind).
Sigh. It’s just rather sad, I guess. Perhaps the designer merely unconciously remembered the 9rules logo and created an “original” design based on those thoughts? (I’m trying to be kind.)
October 15th, 2006 at 12:31 am
Well, I just noticed the overlay Mike added in the original post, and I suppose the jig is clearly up.
Sigh. Sad. Just sad.
October 15th, 2006 at 12:35 am
Wow
I cant beleive it…. such a rip off!
Just wondering if the 9rules logo a registrered trademark! if so you guys have a lot of money coming!
But even if its not you guys still own the trademark. have the right to have take it down if its in use prior to the theirs….
I say if they dont take it down .. Sue the mofos… If nothing else it will bring 9rules some press! and a lot of traffic….
October 15th, 2006 at 4:39 am
If you can contact your ISP to try to get logs of IP addresses, if you happen to find that somebody with the ad agency’s IP visited your site, that is very strong of accessability etc. It makes it a true slamdunk.
October 15th, 2006 at 5:53 am
[...] Je kent ‘t misschien wel, je surft wat op het net en denkt opeens, “verrek, dat komt bekend voor”. Zoiets moeten ook de heren (en dames) van 9rules gedacht hebben. Die zagen hun lichtelijk verbouwde logo voor businesslogs terug bij een voor een Toyota conferentie. Afijn, de rest mag bekend worden verondersteld; mailwisseling en ontkenningen. Het hele verhaal leest u hier. [...]
October 15th, 2006 at 9:36 am
When I read the article the image with the matching coordinate points didn’t load. I’m more convinced that the agency Toyota hired modified 9rules’ logo.
However, I do wonder…if the points didn’t match, would it still be a rip?
October 15th, 2006 at 10:55 am
I haven’t really read through the comments, but I think it’s important that this is not Toyota’s fault, it’s their advertising firm’s fault.
Anyway, it’s amazing how many times I’ve seen that logo around and just NOT thought about that, but wow! Holy shit! It’s seriously so dead on that it’s INDISPUTABLE that there was some kind of schkeevey business going on there.
October 15th, 2006 at 11:24 am
You really ought to be pissed off…
ANAL, but it might be worth looking into 17 USC 103(a) of the Copyright Act. Not only do your rights exclude direct copying, but also the production of derivative works. It takes more than simple changes (which is what it seems like here) - there must be “non-trivial contributions” for their work to be considered original over yours. Unfortunately, “non-trivial” is a squishy term. A good copyright lawyer would have a better idea how it would apply here.
Anyways, this might give you a little more faith in hitting them up for copyright infringement if you want.
October 15th, 2006 at 12:52 pm
Wow! That’s so crazy.
October 15th, 2006 at 1:25 pm
[...] [Stolen Leaf] [...]
October 15th, 2006 at 2:40 pm
If you’re not having much luck with Meridian’s, probably worth getting hold of someone from Toyota, they probably wouldn’t like this kind of publicity.
October 15th, 2006 at 10:11 pm
From a legal standpoint, it really doesn’t matter who designed the logo for Toyota. The fact is, Toyota is using the logo.
If 9rules doesn’t do anything to enforce their trademark (registered or not), then it will be implied legally that other people can use the trademark without retribution.
People get sued all the time over trademark infringement. It’s not necessarily that a company protecting the trademark is selfish; it’s protecting their brand and likeness. If a reasonable person can confuse the brand of 9rules to Toyota’s use, then there is a legal problem. It must be dealt with, otherwise 9rules is at risk of losing its brand.
October 16th, 2006 at 3:49 am
That is an important point and worth repeating - 9rules must follow up on this if they want to be considered a ‘proper’ company.
October 16th, 2006 at 7:25 am
Hmmm, the 9rules logo looks like the Adobe CS1 Collection graphics to me ….
October 16th, 2006 at 7:29 am
Three random coordinate points lining up perfectly in an XY plane is quite the coincidence
Well if you rescale things it can be pretty coincidental. I could rescale the 9rules leaves and lay it over the maple leaf and bingo, I could have three random coordinates lineup.
The Toyota thing is still a rip, but that was a bad argument.
October 16th, 2006 at 10:30 am
[...] In what has to be one of the most odd cases of accused plagiarism I’ve seen, 9Rules, the well-respected blog network, has accused a design firm working for Toyota of plagiarizing their logo. [...]
October 16th, 2006 at 8:54 pm
[...] Un nuevo caso en el que una compañÃa de renombre aparece implicada en la supuesta copia de un logotipo, en este caso Toyota es la implicada y el blog 9rules los perjudicados. En dicho blog se presentan las siguientes imágenes en donde se muestra que reflejando su logo y sacándole los colores para dejarlo todo en verde, se llega a una propuesta muy similar: [...]
October 17th, 2006 at 4:10 am
I find myself wondering how close any of us would have to get to using something that resembled the Toyota logo before we’d have a whole team of lawyers filing lawsuits against us. They’re logo is just two ovals in the shape of a stylized “T” surrounded by a third oval. If I were to use just two of those three ovals in the shape of a “T” to represent my first name, Tim, and then put that up as my site’s logo, does anyone think that Toyota would not consider that a rip-off of their logo?
If Toyota is stupid enough to pursue the defense of this logo and try to keep it, then they are setting a precedent that will backlash on their own logo. They may be big, but the blogoshpere is bigger and far more openly outspoken. Wait till they see sites all over the world displaying Toyota-like ovals in very unflatterring and inventive positions. We’ll call it the “ToyOval War.”
October 17th, 2006 at 6:44 am
[...] Toyota Loves 9rules So Much, They Used Our Leaf » 9rules Network Official Blog [...]
October 17th, 2006 at 10:13 am
That’s insane. As a graphic designer myself I can say that at immediate first glance I was able to tell your logo was stolen - and much abused - by whatever design firm Toyota had hired. Like others have said; this isn’t Toyota’s fault, but they do bear the burden of responsibility as much as the design firm itself!
Here are a couple (even more blatantly and even more “famous”) stolen logos I’ve noticed myself:
http://warehouse.carlh.com/article_037/index.php
Good luck in your endeavours to sort this out!
October 17th, 2006 at 11:31 am
Quoting from the comment of an Intellectual Property attorney that teaches in our college:
“… in copyright infringement lawsuits, judges and juries use something called a lay observer test, meaning that if the average person can look or listen to the two works in question and see that they are identical in some ways, there is an argument for infringement.”
So, the best advice is to be creative!
October 17th, 2006 at 8:00 pm
Seems awfully close for coincidence. I agree the primary fault lies with the design firm, not Toyota.
October 17th, 2006 at 10:21 pm
[...] Toyota Loves 9rules So Much, They Used Our Leaf The logos for Toyota’s “In the Interest of Women” campaign and 9rules network have too much resemblance for comfort. Interesting to note that this kicks off Toyota v. 9rules. (tags: infringement logo design interesting) Filed under: Links | [...]
October 17th, 2006 at 11:32 pm
Sue ‘em and get rich playa!
October 18th, 2006 at 6:21 am
[...] Toyota Loves 9 Rules: The Toyota plant in Georgetown, Kentucky must really think 9rules is something nifty, because for their “In the Interest of Women†conference (website/logo here) they took a 9rules leaf, flipped it horizontally and turned it green to celebrate their love! [...]
October 18th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
The logo no longer appears on the Toyota site
October 19th, 2006 at 8:11 am
Good. And just for the record, trademarks do not need to be registered. Registration just strengthens the owner’s right in a mark. You also don’t have to register a trademark to begin using the mark.
October 19th, 2006 at 8:18 am
Such a blatant rip off! The other day I stumbled upon a site that apparently checks whether other people have ripped off your site… here it is http://www.copyscape.com, just in case you wanna make sure you’re still “unique”…
October 19th, 2006 at 8:48 am
Oh my god, what a rip off!
October 19th, 2006 at 10:24 am
The ripped logo has been removed…
October 19th, 2006 at 10:31 am
Yup, it’s gone!
New entry up about the situation, thanks everybody!
October 19th, 2006 at 2:43 pm
Ah. I wrote a post about it on my blog.
October 20th, 2006 at 11:50 pm
David - 1
Goliath - 0
October 21st, 2006 at 8:04 am
[...] - marcelino pega y pega en serio… y no se lo puede culpar. Luego de tantas polemicas al pedo… en una misma semana Spaces es una plataforma de blogs genial y Microsiervos dice que la publicidad es buena para los blogs… ¿no es mucho todo junto?
- PuntoGeek con Un mensajito para Google Earth - Vecindad Gráfica palpita el dia delos muertos - EndOfWires con datos del primer muni-fi argentino - 9Rules y la similaridad con un logo de Toyota - Bajo sus alas y el auténtico juguete de MacGiver - El Diablo en los Detalles En Defensa de Debian por Firefox vs. IceWeasel - Kusor recomienda libros para Aprender a programar… esta vez con Ruby - Fabio y algo más sobre 300 - furilo La Conferencia Rails Hispana, en marcha - Netadblog con entradas para MKTG2.0 - blogpocket enseña cómo convertir Google en un Napster personal y gratuito - FrancoG es el nuevo Apple User Group Liaison for Latin America - SimDalom y una buena nota sobre las posibilidades del video en Internet - eConectados Sin palabras - Online Ya se pueden leer las noticias del mes que viene en 20minutos - ALT1040 ¿es Juegos.com un dominio de u$s10 millones? - OjoBuscador Ya puedes controlar a GoogleBot - Bajo mi pulgar y una nota sobre SecondLife - Andrea y las posibilidades - Al-Div@ in Wonderland y las reflexiones de una Srta. Periodista [...]
October 21st, 2006 at 12:37 pm
This is not fare in any way. It hurts when you realize that somebody takes the work in which you have put your time and your love, and sells it as if it were his/her creation.
Luckyly, there are lot of people outhere that cares about you, and kindly let you know about this kind of awful stuff.
However, after the ripoff, what I hate the most is the nerve of those ones that can’t recognize their mistakes.
I’m amazed. But, if you consider a Google Bombing, I’m in!
October 21st, 2006 at 1:25 pm
[...] Lo que más sorprende de este tipo de hechos -tan comunes en internet- no es el plagio como tal, sino el descaro de los implicados. En la nota final de la entrada de 9rules que denuncia este hecho, Mike Rundle afirma que recibió un email de la firma asegurando que el logotipo no es una copia en ninguna forma. [...]
November 7th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
Brutal, just brutal,
the logo is still in the registration PDF even though its not on the website anymore.
Keep in mind even though toyota maybe be big the person the doing the ripping off could be just a regular person with a deadline and lack of creativity…I wouldn’t be too hard on Toyota for this..maybe their hiring manager if its internal or the person that chose their firm.
November 9th, 2006 at 9:09 am
“My people will be contacting you about the use of my “leaf†design. God”
I don’t believe that this is a post from the real God. It ’s always been my understanding that God was big into open source. God has a real take what I’ve done and modify it for your own purposes mindset. Generally asking that you credit him for the work and if you feel like it send donations via church or pay pal.
November 9th, 2006 at 1:17 pm
A little late to the game, but honestly, this is ridiculous.
Legal action? Stop giving lawyers more things to make money off of.
Sure, use it as an advertising opportunity for your company, but don’t make yourself look like an ass in the process.
Most corporations are evil, stop acting like one. Be flattered and move on.
What ever happened to sharing?
December 4th, 2006 at 6:28 pm
Sorry to bring this scandal back to life, but I thought I’d like to point out another 9rules logo rip about to take place…
http://www.digitalmediaminute.com/article/2378/giving-away-two-ipod-nanos#comment-49176
This is a link to the fabulous “Digital Media Minute” website where Jim Rutherford opines and links on up-to-date IT fodder.
Jim’s article is asking people to post screenies of their current work in progress, and one of the entries is as follows…
nice.
December 22nd, 2006 at 3:43 am
this sucks
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:19 am
[...] The worrisome thing is that if you start poking around the web, you find lots of examples and not all of them chopshops doing the ripping. My favorite tactic for dealing with it, has to be Panic’s. Keep a sense of humor, realize that litigation will cost far more than a logo could ever make you, that IP decisions are not always fair or sensible, and let the sun shine on the matter. Welcome to the social ;)These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]
March 29th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
I guess you never got a reply back from them
June 20th, 2007 at 2:50 am
[...] Returning The Favor: The Toyota Mashup Challenge! - After learning that an ad agency that works for Toyota stole the 9rules logo I had some fun with their logo in return. [...]
August 1st, 2007 at 4:37 am
The annual conference is coming up this fall, and Toyota is still using the leaf.